Transcript: Space4U podcast, Daniel Lockney
Written by: Space Foundation Editorial Team
Hello, I am Carah Barbarick with Space Foundation and you’re listening to the Space4U podcast. Space4U is designed to tell the stories of the people who make space exploration today more accessible to all. Today we are joined by Daniel Lockney. Daniel Lockney is the Technology Transfer Program executive at NASA headquarters in Washington, D.C., responsible for agency level management of NASA intellectual property and the transfer of NASA technology to the public. Lockney oversees policy, strategy, resources and direction for the agency’s technology commercialization efforts.
NASA has had a long history of finding new innovative uses for its space and aeronautics technologies, and Lockney is the agency’s leading authority on these technologies and their practical terrestrial applications. Lockney studied American Literature at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and creative writing at John Hopkins University.
He started his NASA career as a contractor in 2004, converting to civil service in 2010. He lives in University Park, Maryland with his wife and two space pups, Astro and Cosmo. Welcome Dan. Hey, how are you? I’m doing pretty good today. I’m excited that we get some time to, to chat and me to pick your brain about a few things.
Yeah, it’s going to be fun. I’m looking forward to it. Thanks for having me. It’s my pleasure. So I, I have to admit I’m a little intrigued by the fact that you … multiple writing degrees, and now you have a leadership position at NASA. So I’d love to hear a little bit about kind of that transition from writing to, to science.
Oh yeah. I don’t know if I could explain it. I couldn’t have planned this. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Um, I, I get asked about this a lot and I think the answer is I just kept pursuing whatever I found interesting. Um, so if, if I liked something, if it was engaging to me, if I was interested in something, continuously curious about it, then I kept moving that direction.
And, uh, I look back, Huh. So that happened.
Okay. I don’t want to expect it, but it was also, I guess I’ve been doing this, uh, 17 years now. Um, and it was not an, not an overnight process. Right. So did you teach writing to understand that? Yeah, I was a high school teacher for a while and I taught technical writing at a local college in Baltimore and it’s ultimately…
I, I went into college, didn’t really know what I wanted to do and was fascinated by stories and storytelling. I’ve always been an avid reader and I just, I just liked the, I liked stories and I thought I’ll be a writer. But I remember my folks sent me through the job ads back, when we had like physical newspapers, which dates me a little bit.
And yeah, there’s nothing here in the Ws for a writer. Do you have a backup plan? And I didn’t. Um, so I got out of school. I didn’t really know what to write. So I went and talked for a while. No. I had a bunch of different ideas. I’ve always been interested in nutrition and cooking too. Um, so I considered writing cookbooks, but I didn’t really know enough about cooking.
So I thought about going to cooking school and I realized, you know, I was actually enrolled in culinary school. Hadn’t started. And as a last ditch effort, you know, let me, let me see if this I pictured it will be fun and engaging to learn. You know, the fundamental is cooking but I also pictured myself, you know, being wet in a kitchen, working like weekends and holidays.
Um, as I learned the craft, uh, I didn’t think I would just transition immediately to writing cookbooks. So a last ditch effort, I applied to a job application it was written so poorly and it was the NASA Center for Aerospace, Information Scientific and Technical Information program. And it was literally written all as acronyms as all one word.
So is NSA, STI NSA, CA S I S T I P. And it was nonsense. And the whole ad was written in such a way that it really made no sense. I think that looks pretty cool. Maybe that’s better than cooking. So I applied for it. And I said, I got to the door and there’s that blue meatball on the door, like NASA, NASA. I was like, what?
Spaceships and stuff. You gotta be kidding me. Um, so yeah, I was not a space buff. I was not an engineer. I walked in and they started describing what they’re doing and I was sold. It was kind of a last ditch… Maybe this is an interesting job. They started describing it. You know, how there’s a bunch of technology that we have in our everyday lives due to space exploration and the nation’s investment in aerospace research.
And I was like, yeah, everyone knows that. We record that here. We hunt that down. We find it. We tell that story. So the public knows that that its investment in NASA is worth the effort. And there’s all these cool products and services as a result of this investment. That’s pretty cool. And I started researching it, looking into it.
Uh, there’s actually really something here. And the beauty of it is I’d mentioned that I like stories and the tech transfer and, you know, spinoff processes. By which NASA made this technology available to the public. It’s kind of wonderful and cyclical. Kind of like Law and Order, which we all know and love.
There’s like 10,000 Law and Orders. There’s also like 10,000 NASA spinoffs. And the process is, you know, NASA gets assigned to a mission told, go do this impossible thing and it’s NASA. Like yeah. We’ll figure that out, and in the process of doing that work. You know, you can’t go buy the components that at Target.
You can’t just like run out to Home Depot to like, give me James Webb Space Telescope. And you know, they have one on the shelf. There’s some process involved, you have to make this thing. And there’s individual technologies, inventions, the components that, that need to be come up with along the way. Like I said kind of like Law and Order is NASA gets a mission, and then they run into a challenge, the engineers, and they’re like, we’ve researched the state of the art.
We’ve looked around for a solution. And there isn’t anything, DUN DUN that sound at commercial break. Um, the NASA engineers and inventors really smart, fun people develop a new solution to whatever problem it is. So then we have a NAS technology that does something, some sort of need to. So then DUN DUN, that’s my Law and Order sound,
That comes to the NASA tech transfer program, which is now my responsibility. The is active for this activities. All 10 field centers. We have a NASA office that reviews all of the inventions that the inventors come up with and we’ve got 1600, 1800 per year. And we look at them and see. What else can we make from this?
Who else can use it? Are there obvious industry applications? And then if there are applications, what’s the best way to get it out to the public. Most often these are non aerospace uses and we figure out things like, oh yeah, the shipping industry can use this, or this will work in a hospital or this would be great in sneakers or who knows what it’s going to be.
That’s kind of the fun of it. So then we endeavor to get that out to the public in whatever way we determine is best and sometimes it’s publishing sometimes as patent licensing. Um, sometimes we invite people in and show it to them, have a know-how and show how it kind of transfer. If it’s software, we’ll let people download it.
So we work on ways to get it out to the public and then DUN DUN — the public, like a company will take it, invest in it. Manufacturer it, market it and sell it. And all of a sudden, like this weird digital gadget that some NASA engineer sitting in a, um, a lab someplace, and I got an idea, this will solve my mission. One of my mission deeds, you know, that technology is all of a sudden you can go to Target and pick it up off the shelf.
There’s an unlimited number of these stories to always hunt down, find intel and NASA’s continuously investing in new technologies. So it’s this never-ending fountain of fantastic content. So that’s what got me interested originally. And then as I kept working within the program, it was a little bit like The Karate Kid.
Uh, like kinda like, why am I waxing all these cars and all of a sudden, like, you know, karate. Um, so I think that’s how the movie went. Right. That’s how I remember it too. Um, so that was a little bit like, like training in tech trends or I, I wrote, you know, a couple of hundred stories did hundreds of interviews in the process of, of, you know, compiling these success stories and writing the, the, uh, the annual spinoff report for NASA.
Um, after a few years, all of a sudden I knew this stuff and it was kind of unexpected to me too. Um, so now I’m just the writer. I’m just cataloging I’m I’m your scribe. But it turns out that I had a kind of bizarre depth of content knowledge and, uh, and an overall view, uh, that gave me some insights into what was successful and what the program needed to continue doing and invest in, in order to ensure that there’s more of that successful commercialization.
Uh, so then eventually. I ended up getting the opportunity to implement some of those ideas, run the program itself as a long-winded answer. I’m so sorry. I’ll try to be a little shorter. No, but I mean, that’s fascinating to me cause it, it really is your love of learning and your love of stories that just kind of allowed you to keep moving on that path.
So then, you know, when you first started it, wasn’t the love of science or that the tech transfer that really kind of drew you to it? Yes. So it’s this kind of wonderful field. So I’ve talked to the tech transfer offices at, you know, all the other federal laboratories, the national labs, universities, et cetera, have tech transfer functions, um, and largely this kind of wonderful gang of misfits who end up in tech transfer, who fall in love with it.
And you know, very few people actually go to school to study tech transfer. I don’t even know if you can and if you can, I just, you don’t need to. Um, but we ended up people pass through and we inherit engineers, entrepreneurs and inventors, and people kind of come into our orbit, realize like I did that it’s fun here and then stay.
Um, and that’s kind of true all over the place. It’s kind of captivating. Once you start learning the stories and learning to process, it turns out there’s a lot of meat here and there’s the work is never done. So we find that the process of working with companies in order to get them to be successful, selling your technology and the stories of how that happens are compelling to all sorts of folks.
Like we get bipartisan support, which is, you know, strange and unusual these days. And we also get every administrator comes through, NASA, ends up realizing that tech transfer and the, this type of work end up being real evergreen for the agency that it says, you know, people always except we’re doing it.
And they’re happy to know we’re doing it really well. And it’s, uh, it’s a neat experience. It’s a neat, it’s a neat career, but I I’ve yet to meet anyone yet. Who says I’m going to go be a tech transferer. We end up with folks who, who kind of end up here and when they get here, they realize it’s a lot of fun. Well, and people love good stories.
To me, you’re telling the best stories of, of how NASA brings these great things to us right here on earth. It’s not just in space. We’re helping, you know, create new startup companies. We see companies grow, we see companies that we work with rent out new office space, hire new people. And it’s kind of fun to see products emerge like actually in a box.
Like that’s a real thing. You get to see the results of your work and you get to see that it’s affecting people and changing lives. I don’t know that every job has that same level of visible impact. I think there are few that are that rewarding, where you get to see the results of your work. So, um, tangibly and, and at such scale.
I agree. Is there one that kind of sticks out there? One or two? I should say that stick out in your mind of, oh yeah. This one, either people would have no idea that it started in space or it’s just so amazing. You can’t help, but talk about. It’s a little tough. It’s like asking a mother to, you know, pick her favorite child.
Um, but like in my mom’s case, that’s easy clearly. Um, it’s the one that I always bring out is, uh, as people don’t ealize it, but it’s in their pocket right now or, or in their hand even. Uh, but we invented the camera phone. Uh, we actually invented the chip that is in now, you know, almost all digital cameras today.
It’s the CMOS camera on a chip. And I, I believe that it’s in the space foundation, space technology hall of fame and the inventor, Eric Fossum is in the national inventors hall of fame. So this is all legit. Like there’s traceable, intellectual property lineage. I’m not just making stuff up. Y’all y’all can Google this one.
It’s true. Yeah. So then the, the, the, um, the loose story around it. So this is, this is the shorthand version of it is we developed this lightweight high resolution camera for satellite applications. The thinking is, you know, you can’t run a power cord up into space and you want good pictures coming back to you and you’d be lightweight so you could launch it.
So we developed this camera on a chip, a microchip that could also serve as a camera, but we didn’t know what to do with it. You know, we kinda thought like maybe some of the three letter agencies, the spy organizations would be interested that, you know, they could, they could use it for taking pictures of evidence and secret dossiers that they pull out of file cabinets.
Uh, it turns out it’s a very small market, um, and, uh, they were, they were only interested in it and we really don’t approach that, like where you go radio shack. Um, so that ended up not getting off the ground. Uh, we were post finder. The phone company. And I said, we’re thinking about putting a camera in a cell phone.
And we thought that was the funniest thing. Okay. Hey, get a load of this. Um, you take a picture of your ear. So, and we say, who would use this? Why would anyone want this thing? Uh, and they said the answer is quite simple. Japanese teenage girls. At least that, wait, what is that? Okay. So in Japan, there’s a thing called Kawaii Culture.
There’s kind of obsession with cuteness. And if you’ve ever been to Japan, you know, even their traffic cones are adorable. They look like little frogs and stuff. And there’s this like, Hello Kitty is this kind of phenomenon. They’re like, oh, she’s adorable. I said, you know, Japanese names, girls. Trade this and it’s like literally erasers and things and they, they, they love little cute stuff.
So we’re thinking that you could use your cell phone to take pictures of stuff and create, you know, virtual trading cards of these cute little things. So let’s say you encounter, uh, an adorable cupcake. You take a picture of it and send it to your friend, and this will be huge. So it turns out they were right.
Very right. Very right. And so the lesson there is like, you know, you don’t, don’t just dismiss an idea no matter how crazy it sounds. And then the other lesson is like deep down inside. We’re, we’re kind of all Japanese teenage girls. Um, I don’t know a single person, you know, myself included as much as I like to deny it, who hasn’t taken a picture of something cute and you’ve seen, you know, whole social media platforms grow up around this concept of snapping a picture and sharing stuff with folks.
So this is where I’m stretching a little bit. I had mentioned you go Google it, look it up it. Now you can see I’m kind of taking credit for all of social media.
You allowed trends to happen and made it possible. Definitely the camera. Definitely the camera, but yeah, I can see how that might be one of your favorite tech transfer children. So it’s fun. You have one I’m using, well, I’m not using one camera right now, but I’ve got my phone in my pocket. Yeah. I think anyone can imagine now not having the phone camera.
Yeah. You know, one of the questions I get asked is … I’m doing your job back here.
Okay. You may care to ask me that’s one of the questions we get asked all the time is, well, wouldn’t someone else have come up with it anyways so like, wouldn’t we have got there anyways? Like we got the camera on our phone now and sure it was NASA, but somebody would have come up with that. And the closest answer that I’ve ever felt comfortable with is yeah, maybe we didn’t need the rigors and space exploration to come up with this
But, you know, we invented, uh, you know, another space foundation space technology hall of fame inductee. The, um, ventricular assist device is this miniaturized heart pump. That will serve as kind of a bridge until you can find a new heart transplant. And it was this beautiful device that was able to keep children alive.
It was the first child size heart pump. Um, it was based on the fluid flow dynamics and some of the computers, the supercomputer work at NASA that we used to develop the control, the fuel going into this spacious Balmain engine. And it became this child’s part mode. So yeah, you do not need to build a spaceship first before you build a heart.
And if you do, you, you gone about in such a strange way, you probably did it wrong. You don’t need that. However, the second half of that answer is this is a nice byproduct of having done that work anyway. So the space research is for in the space technology investment to advance humankind and our understanding of the universe and our place in it.
That’s cool. And it’s kind of inherently human. But then the other super neat part is the secondary tertiary applications, the gravy that comes out of this and that it makes our lives better in tangible, practical, terrestrial ways. You talk about a camera and then you talk about a heart pump. I mean, those are two very, very different concepts than byproducts.
Yeah. So we’re all over the place. It’s you see us in consumer goods, sporting equipment. You’ll see us in medical applications from telemedicine to, you know, advanced robotic surgeries to the robots to dispense medicine in hospitals. That’s a thing now, to, even the roomba. You know, the I robot vacuum from the I robot folks, you know, they cut their teeth at NASA building Mars rovers.
They’ve also been tactical robots. So you see them, you see NASA technology in every airplane, blended up, turned wing lifts at the corners of airplanes. That’s a NASA technology allows for greater fuel efficiency, hundreds of NASA technologies in airplanes. You see us all over the place. So we’ve got a couple of catchphrases, like there’s more space in your life than you think.
Bring NASA technology down to Earth, you can pretty much imagine any aspect, any activity, and we can find, uh, a way that NASA has made it better, some sort of pathway back to NASA. Yeah. So I think, you know, we look at space now and going to space and it seems almost commonplace, but we forget that it’s still difficult.
To get to space. So what do you think some of the new obstacles of say, going to other planets and going back to the moon, I mean, do you see any tertiary benefits that might be coming our way? Yeah. So the first part of your question is I think, you know, from what I’ve learned, you as a, as a lay person, coming into the space industry and getting, getting to know it over the past 20 years, Um, growing up, you know, I was taught that space travel was fairly safe and routine with the, you know, the idea was that the shuttle was like a big, a big bus or a big truck, and it’d just go back up and down.
And then we kind of lost track of how many missions there were. And then you’d see something like the challenger disaster or the Columbia disaster and it’s a stark reminder that it was, we’d never say it was never easy, but we’ve kind of gotten… Inadvertently gave the public, the impression that we had it all figured out, but it turns out that even to this very day space is challenging.
So what sort of advances are we expecting to come out of our, our investments in space exploration? Now, some of them are predictable, like power storage and generation. Uh, which could have application in, you know, here on earth, you know, better batteries, solar panels, that type of a thing, cleaning water, um, keeping crews safe in, in remote areas has obvious applications.
Uh, we say, well, we talked about telemedicine in remote regions, but I think most of us have had an online telemedicine doctor’s appointment this year. We haven’t quite figured out to go to the dentist remotely. Um, so there’s a lot of things we can predict, you know, lighter weight, newer materials, stronger materials.
So these types of things that we know to expect, I’m kind of most interested in the stuff that we don’t know we’re going to come in to come across, like the kind of, just as the fun. Part of exploration is the unknown. I think that’s the fun part. The fun part of some of this technology development will be figuring out like what kind of new technology will we discovered that we need and then have to create.
And then what’s. So what sort of strange unexpected help on camera or heart pump might we get out of it? So it’s the part we don’t know that I’m most excited about me too. I think that’s where the creativity comes in. Very exciting to think about. I’m the worst person to visit the labs walking through when people are telling me what they’re working on.
And I went to our skunkworks lab at Kennedy space center, which is just kind of high-tech lean operation that just works. Uh, I’m thinking outside of the big bureaucracy of a federal agency that they can just do quick, fast tech development. They’re working on this low voltage device for scattering, the dust off of solar panels for Mars rovers.
Which is so cool. It’s one of the challenges to get up on Mars. And you got these solar panels and wind picks up some dust and, uh, knocked it onto your solar panel. Then you can’t recharge. And then, well, you don’t have any energy, uh, it’s a bummer. So they’re describing this technique. It doesn’t mean a lot of power.
It would vibrate at such a low frequency that it wouldn’t allow dust to settle on it. So cool. And for Mars, which is also so cool. But again, I’ve been on the worst guy to the visit. What else is it to, where else can you use it? It’s for Mars. Could you use it on a car? Why would you want to, who is this guy?
What do you put on it? Why don’t you put it on a skyscraper and then you wouldn’t have to clean windows, you can keep the windows clean all the time. How did he get in here? He’s lost. How did he get on the tour. Um, but I’m always interested. Like what else, what else? But I was going to do, and that’s part of the fun of this work.
And, you know, quite honestly, that was somewhat of a joke, but the inventors, you know, they, they know where else it could be used. They’ve they’ve been looking into the whatever problem it is they’re trying to solve. And they’ve, they’ve looked at different industries, they different look at different applications.
They know the field and they’ll come to us and say, I’ve developed this thing by the way, it could be useful here. And then they’re usually right. And then you help them transfer it. That’s the plan. So then how do people actually find technology that’s available to, to transfer it to some other purpose here on earth?
Well, we have a website. Super simple. I know, right? We didn’t always, and we’re actually not to brag not to brag but we are the only federal agency with all of its technology available on a website. To this day, people looking at how did you do it? And it turns out it wasn’t easy, but every technology that we have hardware or software is available, uh, technology and assets.
And you can find our patent portfolio within our patent portfolio, there will be, it’s all searchable, beautiful website, searchable by keyword. There’s also entry points like materials and coatings, robotics, automation, optics, instruments, sensors, and such. So you can get a little head start if you’re just in a specific category, but you can search through our entire portfolio.
You pull up the technology and there’ll be a picture, there’ll be some plain language description of what we’re working on, what we came up with and what it does. There will be a bulleted list of benefits of this technology over the state of the art. And then what we think list of potential applications for it could be, and then kind of like a newspaper article where you get more detail as you read down in the page, it gets a little more detailed, a little bit more in depth, and then there’ll be a full link to the patent.
So you can see drawings and, and all the information about how the, the enabling description of housing works. So then if you’re interested in talking to us about it, there’s a number that you can call specific to that technology where there’s a link, you can click on it and you’ll get somebody within a day or two. Somebody will get back to you. And to answer your question, that’s the hardware side, the software side, the federal government is funny in that we don’t hold copyright. So we don’t copyright our software.
And generally speaking, you don’t patent software, so this doesn’t have the standard intellectual property protections on it. What we do is we just give it away rather than license it. So we have a free software catalog, with a thousand-plus codes and you click on it and you say I want this thing and then you can download it.
And there’s a thousand codes on there and this isn’t, you know, the Apollo guidance planning software. This is modern everyday software that our engineers and software developers came up with within the past, you know, three to five years, this is modern real stuff. And it’s CFD codes. It’s image analysis codes.
There’s a timecard software in there. We came up with there’s risk management software. There’s Microsoft project plugins — real stuff that we needed that we didn’t see, uh, in the marketplace. So we made a copy and you can have it if you’d like. So software.nasa.gov is the subset, but technology.nasa.gov will get you to all those sites.
And then also within technology.nasa.gov is our spinoff catalog, which is, you know, I mentioned a couple of examples of NASA technology that’s in your everyday life, but there’s spinoff. You can search keyword, search, go pop around the website, and you can find a bunch of cool content, uh, thousands of stories of, of these types of technology.
Examples. We also have kind of a neat interactive called NASA city. Whereas this kind of, um, 3d graphic that you can zoom in and go around an airport, a hospital, a sporting complex, and a home, and find areas that you’d see in your, in your city. You could, you could find which technologies are enhanced by NASA technology.
So kind of a neat feature. I have thoroughly enjoyed that one myself. I do think it is fascinating. Just hovering over all the pieces and realizing, oh, I had no idea that that started as a space technology. Well look at that. Here’s this other thing. And it’s exciting. Yeah it’s all over the place. And you know, these are also, this is the, the free market and, you know, companies come and go.
So some of the companies we worked with in the way back, NASA’s been around for 60 years, some of them are outdated. Um, some technology that we invested in way back when is, you know, not anywhere near as cool and high tech is what we’ve got. Now, in some instances we made lasting impact. Like with the cell phone camera or we helped redesign the modern semi-truck.
So when you see, uh, that, that rounded nose of a big semi flying down the road, you picture back to the 1970s, the semi-trucks had that flat base, like a shoe box, another order sheet of plywood. We worked department transportation, a bunch of truck companies to help them soften that leading edge in order to save fuel back in the seventies during the energy crisis.
So that’s a lasting impact. That’s changed has been around for decades now. That’s kind of ubiquitous and we look at it and yet of course it looked like that. There’s a bunch of stuff that we did way back when that isn’t around anymore. Like we made a robotic mother pig to help nursing piglets, um, temperature controlled device that like vibrated or something at the specific frequency of like a mother pig’s body would and like had a heartbeat in it.
And that was weird, you know, that’s not around anymore, but it was really great in 1976, that was the coolest thing you could have ever seen.
So we we’ve got thousands of these examples, some of my favorites, and NASA’s been coming up with weird stuff forever. One of my favorite patents from NASA goes back to the 1960s and it’s jet shoes. And it’s just what it sounds like. Every kid dreams of either a jet pack or jet shoes and you steer ‘em with your toes.
But yeah, that’s a, that’s a legit NASA patent from the sixties. Um, so we’ve, we’ve come up with a bunch of cool stuff we’ve come up with some weird stuff. And we’ve advanced the state-of-the-art we’ve made, we’ve made your life better and we’ve made some weird stuff too. So. And it’s all there on those websites. To me, tech transfer’s just, it’s fascinating.
Like you said, it’s the stories and it’s the combination of the science and the stories for me that make it the most exciting. The other part that I like about it a lot is I’m a tinkerer. I like. Fixing stuff restored a bunch of sailboats. And while I was working on my house and had a little shop in the back where I’m always building stuff and I, I like to stay busy and figure out how things work.
And in the 1958 space act that created NASA, the Congress wrote in this kind of language that said, um, make sure that the results of your work get distributed to the public. So NASA tech transfer has been around since 1958. I’ve been with it for almost 20 years. I took over management of the program about 10 years ago and to inherit a 50 year old bureaucracy.
Like this, if you can just imagine all of the policy and red tape and processes involved in like IP management, tech transfer that is built up over 50 years, um, the past decade I’ve been having so much fun, just kind of taking it apart and cleaning it and putting it back together. We had so many different ways of doing things that we did them.
Cause we’d always done them that way. So I’ve been having fun, trying to figure out how to make the program more efficient. And some basic stuff like building that website I mentioned, or getting rid of serial processes, we would favor parallel, like where you have, you need, you need to get 10 signatures.
So do you go to 10 people one at a time, or do you go to all 10 of them at once? 10 of them at once makes the most sense. So all of these little tweaks and all these little efficiencies we’re able to make to the process. And to how we do business have rebuilt resulted in over the past decade, a quintupling of the amount of commercialization we’ve typically seen from NASA.
Our patent licensing is through the roof, you know, we’re, we used to average about 20, 25 patents licensed per year. Now we’re hitting a hundred fifty, a hundred seventy five easily and our software. We used to release about six, 700 pieces per year. And now we’re like three, four, 5,000, 6,000-some a year all just by embracing modern technology, figuring out ways to reach people better.
It used to be 20, 30 years ago. You would mail postcards to people. If you wanted them to be interested in something or they can make a magazine. I get to show up in person, but embracing it. The ability to reach so many people to tell them about our offerings is, has really advanced the amount of tech transfer they are able to get done.
So that’s been fun. Brilliant. I do think it’s an exciting thing and hopefully you’ll just keep building it up and keep quadrupling quintupling quint Oh Quint excuse me. Let’s get that right. Carah jeesh.
Yeah, it’s been fun. It’s a strange place I’ve found myself and I really like it. Well, thank you, Dan, for showing us how NASA technology has left the agency and is all around us now. You can subscribe to this podcast and leave us a review on Podbean, apple podcasts, Google podcasts, and Spotify. Remember to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
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